Episode 2

full
Published on:

12th Sep 2025

Fantastic Four: First Steps - A Hilarious, Nuanced Discussion of Hot People in Space on a Mission

What do Marvel movies feel like to people who have never seen a Marvel movie? That’s what two of the three of us find out for you in this episode. Robby has seen every Marvel movie, but Jaclynn and Cole are going in blind.

Join us as we take Fantastic Four: First Steps way too seriously– so seriously that it’s hilarious. Honestly, this might be the funniest episode of the year.

Memorable moments beyond the typical fun, thoughtful analysis include:

• Giving birth in space [00:31:14]

• Our first "Pre-tenshy" (Pretentious) Alert: Comparing the Fantastic Four: First Steps to the 9,000 page series of novels, Three Body Problem. [00:04:32]

• Our first shouting out ex-boyfriends by name. [00:21:12]

Definitely try each of those time stamps , but if you want to know more a full summary of the episode is below!

FULL SUMMARY:

First Reactions and Expectations

  • [00:00:40] A Fresh Perspective: The hosts express their initial thoughts on the film, with two of the three having no prior experience with Marvel. They discuss their decision to see the film and the unique, potentially "uninformed" perspective they bring to the conversation.
  • [00:01:29] Finding the Flaws: One host (guess who!) admits to falling asleep during the film, attributing it to a tiring day but also expressing a desire to see it a second time to give it a fair chance. They share their core disappointment that the film felt predictable and "flat" from the start.

Story Structure and Character Arc

  • [00:07:31] A Critique of Predictability: The discussion delves into the film's structural shortcomings, noting that key plot points, such as the fate of certain characters, felt heavily foreshadowed and lacked surprise. The hosts argue that the story’s predictability drains any meaningful tension.
  • [00:21:46] The Stagnant Hero's Journey: The hosts focus on the lack of character growth and arc within the story. They argue that characters start and end the film as heroes with no significant internal change or conflict. The absence of a genuine hero's journey is highlighted as a core reason for the film’s narrative flatness.

Film as Social Commentary

  • [00:24:07] A Retro-Futuristic Utopia: The conversation shifts to the film’s social subtext, describing its setting as a utopian, nuclear family-centric world that feels oddly reminiscent of the 1950s. The host contrasts this with modern societal realities, noting the surprising level of public trust and the lack of systemic problems like poverty or worker unrest.
  • [00:30:10] Birth in Space and Other Surprises: The hosts discuss the depiction of a superhero giving birth in space, praising the film for showcasing a unique and rarely seen aspect of a superhero's life. They also note the surprising, matter-of-fact portrayal of the event, which they see as a bold choice for a major studio film.
  • [00:36:03] Thematic Thesis: The episode concludes by highlighting the core thematic conflict of the film, quoting a character’s line: "I'm not sacrificing my son for this planet, but I won't sacrifice this planet for my son." This is identified as the central thesis of the story, serving as a powerful and rare moment of genuine moral ambiguity.

CREDITS & ATTRIBUTIONS

Sound Design Field Recordings:

"Pretentious Alert" [00:04:32]

"Ex-Boyfriend Shout Out" [00:21:12]

Transcript
Speaker:

Do you

want Robbie to read that quote, Cole?

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Or do you want to say it?

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Are you okay with me saying it?

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Hottie.

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Oh, I want Cole to say it.

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So we're really going with.

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We're certain It's Hottie Potatie time.

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You have no idea.

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Cole is so mad about that.

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Hey, what time is it?

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Say the thing

That's not really something I say.

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What time is it, Ben? No.

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What time is it? Ben?

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No! Johnny.

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I'm here

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because Robby was going to see it already

with his.

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And I want to keep them happy.

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Yeah, and then we wanted to see it,

and Connor wanted to see it, and I just.

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I trust Robby.

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You're a busy guy, Robby.

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We appreciate it.

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I also fell asleep in it.

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And it might have been.

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It might have been my day.

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Like I had baked

the whole bunch in the heat.

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Like it was a tough day.

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So perhaps, and I do.

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I'm a little nervous to do this today,

because I think it deserved me

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seeing it twice before talking about it.

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But as I told Cole, having an uninformed

opinion has really

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stopped me from talking, so I'm sure

I'll bring something to the table.

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I just don't know how much I'll need it.

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When did you see it?

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Cool.

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They're like.

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You're sad.

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You're real sad.

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You're like, I have friends.

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I have two friends that are kind of

seeing this with me right now.

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They're just in different places.

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This is my part. I have a podcast

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with, like, every cool person out there.

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But I have friends.

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What have one of my accordion

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player

crushes sees me walking into this movie?

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I'll never recover.

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No, it's still a no.

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Yeah, we're definitely

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going to get you a shirt.

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But I did text Cole, Robby,

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because I do I again,

as my my goals in life

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and for this podcast

are hang out with Robbie

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keep Robbie is my friend

and then the success of this podcast.

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So I was like,

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oh no, I don't know what I'm going to do

about this one because I didn't love it.

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And so I texted Cole and I was like, dude,

I don't know if I have anything to say,

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which, you know, I always unfortunately

has anything to say.

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But like, cool just wrote back, oh,

I have a lot to say.

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And so you may not

have liked it, but you have

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things to say.

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Pretend she alert was even dropped.

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Though.

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I by Cole himself.

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Oh my God.

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Coffee?

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It's not pretentious

if you mean it in your heart.

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It may be pretentious.

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Oh. Yes.

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This is individualistic.

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Heteronormative as well.

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ever have.

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Dressing.

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And I

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You did not.

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I think I think one

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reason I don't want to talk about it

is because it's not for me.

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Like. And I don't know what the goals are.

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Right? Like, is it like to totally follow

the comic book?

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And is it for comic book people

who are like, who cares what you like?

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You don't like it? Like it

matches the comic book?

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Or is it people

who are super into Marvel movies

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and they have it and like it's doing

all these things like, I don't know

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or I don't understand,

I'm sure I'm probably missing stuff,

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but my actual thing was

it was so nothing happened.

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Like, I was like, this is just like

Mission Impossible, you know?

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Like it's

sort of like we're chasing a box.

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Like it just was like.

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Like it didn't feel like nonsense.

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It felt like it just felt so flat.

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And then the only and then the next layer,

it also felt extremely predictable

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because I knew what was going to happen

from the jump.

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So I was like,

oh no, we're going to worry.

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Mom's going to die or mom will die.

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Like perhaps they will take out mom.

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Perhaps we've got a lot of foreshadowing

that like, moms

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die and mom, mom, mom, mom, mom,

mother Earth, my right.

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There's like this very weak

metaphor of Mother Earth.

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And then, like, you're not going to

kill off Vanessa Kirby.

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You're just not like,

the baby is not going to die.

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The baby's not going to even be in danger.

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Believe it or not, I would

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hate to speak for all non marvel

watching humans, but it it.

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I can accept that.

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Perhaps that's why I didn't like it.

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Like perhaps it was doing a lot of things

great that I like.

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Did not understand.

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Yeah.

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I think so.

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I heralds your end.

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I herald.

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Galactus.

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Yeah.

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The trolley problem.

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Did call children.

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What?

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Yeah.

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Don't answer. Don't answer that. Robbie.

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That was great. That.

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Did you know what I did think?

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Of course.

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I did like the way that Mr.

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Fantastic, too, is like the problem solver

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and the, like logic of it

all that he like.

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Like I like the way that they, like.

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Sue would call him out

for being like you did.

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Think about what happens

if we just, like, kill the baby.

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Like you didn't run that equation.

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You didn't think about it

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like I thought that that I said

that that needed to happen too,

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because that is true to his character

and like, at odds in their relationship.

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And I also don't have children.

And this is in part why.

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Because I definitely would have

to run that equation through.

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What was the year?

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I could not understand the year either.

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What was the year? I.

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Know to editor.

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It wasn't up long enough, but.

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Yeah.

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The Pan Am building

is the Pan Am building?

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Yeah.

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That's like an old.

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It's very odd.

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Like, g. Like these people can save me.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Really, like, very simplistic.

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And made

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you think a lot about improv

and, like, long form improv and, like.

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And how that, to me, informs

all the things that I love.

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Right?

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Like callbacks and like bookends

and, like, picking something up

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from a different scene and, like,

surprising in another scene. Right?

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So it might be like there's two characters

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talking about cooking, and then all of a

sudden you're like, had two monsters.

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And then all of a sudden, like,

the monsters are the cooks, or

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like some big surprise or like two things

that don't go together do,

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which I think the Marvel movies have done

really well, where it's like,

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I don't know that that thing would happen

in this movie, or like,

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I had no idea those were connected

somehow.

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It's really gutsy.

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It's magic when it works, and you do have

to just be constantly surprised.

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But one of my favorite, I, I was texting

one of the moms Lucas brother shows.

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So it's like Ed Hersman

and Jason Mantzoukas,

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brilliant improvisers,

and it was like a:

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It's like the last show at the theater.

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And I was told not to like not to cut it

like they would cut themselves.

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They would decide when the show was over.

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And I am a rule follower,

so I cannot comprehend such things.

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So like an hour hit and I was like,

I guess I should

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probably like whack them out.

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And so I black them out

and they were basically like, no.

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No. No.

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And so I like black them out

and they turn on the music

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and like I'm like trying to like

pull them off stage. Right.

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It's like the owner of the Magnet

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Theater and Jason

Mantzoukas is the height of his fame.

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It was his league days.

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And you kind of hear the audience gasp

because they've done this show.

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It's like this, like cult show that like,

people like you have to be in the know.

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But like, I think the new had been

to every single one, right?

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Like they'd ask you

at the top of the show, like,

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how many of you,

how many shows have you been to?

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And it was like this whole thing anyway,

so everybody knew that I had messed it up.

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And you just hear them go,

oh, I think the electricity went out.

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Oh no, the radio is on.

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And so I like turn the lights back up

and you just see like as I'm doing it,

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Mandzukic hits the lights like a little

fake light switch and it clicks back on.

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And then he starts hitting the space

like stereo and like turns off the music.

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And I was like, oh God, I

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but it's hilarious, right?

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It's so like I totally messed up

and like I'm mortified.

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But they just were.

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And then they played for like another hour

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and I just was like,

I'm I'm obviously not here to like,

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block the show out, but like, it's like

such like they worked with the mistake,

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you know, and it's like such a surprise.

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And I think of that one just because like

I was involved in like the mess up of it.

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But like when you can do that

kind of like improv bravery in film

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or like major pop culture stuff,

I just think it's so cool.

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And I felt like Marvel did that, like it

had this real, like bravery and surprise

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and the like it would be like,

this doesn't work, but it's got it does.

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And we can't like something

greater than us.

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Some magical alchemy has happened.

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And now here we are.

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And like,

I think that is so cool and exciting.

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And I saw Thor Ragnarok.

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With a with a boy I was dating.

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Shout out Hunter!

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You have no idea.

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I got so mad about that.

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I, I just gonna say that's

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why I didn't like it

is because nobody grew like that's.

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Exactly.

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There's like.

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No, nothing changed and nobody grew.

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And you could argue that, like the uncle,

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Human Torch,

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like he grew a little,

like I'm not impervious to pathos.

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Right? So, like, the end did get me.

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I might have cried a little. The end.

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Because you can't have a baby,

and I'm not going to have tears

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like I fell to the monster.

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That is pathos at the end.

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And I did like it when when Human

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Torch, like, went to go save the beat,

you know, he was like, tell.

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So Franklin,

the uncle, the Human Torch loves him.

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Whatever the name was, the Uncle

Johnny loves him like that game it did.

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Even though I knew

what was going to happen.

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It got me and like, heat her.

Maybe a little maybe.

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But they didn't really set him up

as like an irresponsible, dumb

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dumb entirely,

but like that, that he had some growth.

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But the rest of them,

nothing changed and nobody grew.

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And that's

that's always when a story falls

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really flat to me

when there's just like, no.

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So they have this thing,

the genie, like, yeah,

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they had this like problem to solve.

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But like, really

there wasn't any real conflict.

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And there was like

nobody had like a real arc.

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There wasn't really a hero's journey.

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Like they were heroes

and they stayed heroes.

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When those things are lacking

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in a story,

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I find I often find them flat and it it.

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I am a big fan of formula and like

I mean I literally study

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stories

to exacting points to see what works.

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But in this case,

I think formula got so in the way.

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And then the I just,

I felt like there was no real character

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journey.

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Yeah.

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That's what made it. And that's.

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I mean, all of that is still alive

and well today.

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Do not get me wrong,

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but it had a very like

the idea of the sort of like, almost

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of that middle class

and it being so aspirational

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or upper middle class

being so aspirational,

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had that felt to me

very retro like, like I,

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I feel like we at least now know that

that's like a myth that doesn't exist

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and no one's inspired,

like aspiring to it anymore,

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because the stratification of wealth

is so dramatic.

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They had like a real nuclear family,

even though there's four of them

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and one's like a rock man

and like one's an uncle.

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So I had this weird, like, nuclear family,

heteronormative:

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And I think it's because, like, the car

also looks like a station wagon to me.

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Like, and you have these, like, heroes

who go on TV and talk about it.

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And everybody

kind of does trust and believe them.

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Like there's a lot of trust given

to the fantastic Four that we just don't

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I don't know, it's interesting

calling your interesting points.

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Did you.

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Because you do.

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Because here's what I'm hearing from

call is you saw like this worker unrest.

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And you saw poverty.

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I didn't either,

but I slept through half the movie.

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So I've just been assuming that I missed

this, like, poor undercurrent.

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But, Robbie, it sounds like you didn't

necessarily see it either.

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Am I? I'm.

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I it did feel to me

a little bit more utopian.

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And it did feel like there was a working

class.

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And like, the Fantastic Four was not.

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You know, they were more, you know,

but there was like, a huge, like, trust

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in, like, the systems.

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And there was a clear hierarchy and

I didn't see it as like extreme poverty.

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But I again, I may miss things,

but I did see it as like a working class,

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but like a working middle class in which

they were like all nicely dressed.

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They all look like they were fed.

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They didn't seem like

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they were like unhappy about not eating or

their kids were in danger.

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It felt like they were really happy.

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And part of and that the Fantastic

Four was additive and had help save them,

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you know,

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it was like very propaganda heavy,

but it felt like

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the people were very like, willing.

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And I think

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you can only come from a willing place

if you're like, meet needs are being met.

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Like I was in Russia for like three weeks

a few years ago,

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and I was surprised by talking

to so many people who were like,

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I know everybody thinks we want democracy,

but we actually like socialism

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because at

least I knew my basic needs would be met.

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Like, maybe it wasn't great.

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Like maybe like maybe these,

like darker years that were dark

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weren't ideal

and aren't what we would want.

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But like, democracy is even worse for us.

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Like,

I would rather be guaranteed like a house,

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a car, education and food,

even if it's not great.

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But like, everybody had needs met

and so they were okay.

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And then like their biggest problem

was like, oh no, the ship is failing

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and it's going to hit my kid,

or this thing is falling from the sky,

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it's about to hit my kid.

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Or these like, strange, weird monsters

are showing up that aren't in our world.

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And the Fantastic Four comes in helps.

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But it didn't feel like anybody

was like asking,

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like more food, higher wages,

you know, like I didn't see it.

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But again, I slept through a lot of it.

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Which isn't to say that you didn't read

something in the text call that was there.

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And I just like my own middle

class blindness.

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Missed it.

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That was it.

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That's.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I still don't get that. Oh.

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I want to hear what Ravi had to say.

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I wanted to introduce you to someone.

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This is our son, Franklin.

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You know my story.

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Sure.

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I've never seen a pregnant superhero

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that felt new.

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That's a I.

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One of my favorite stories you've ever

told, Robbie, is about, Connor's birth.

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And so I love. I love that that, like.

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Like the Emily would see that, like,

sort of like rocket ship falling apart.

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Intense insanity.

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She's like, yes, that is.

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That's what it's like.

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I was glad I thought that they were going

to keep her pants on,

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and I like, I really thought like Disney

was just going to be like,

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well, we're just going to keep that.

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And so I, I don't know why,

but I really appreciated it.

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When you see her little pants split off.

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So yeah. Okay. Good. Good.

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That was really bothering me. Guys.

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I was also.

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Kind of disturbed by it

because I was like,

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I also didn't need to see that,

but I also did

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a little bit go floating away

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and I was like,

okay, now the baby can arrive.

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No, I mean, I there's still a few things.

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Yeah, it's a very big baby.

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Anyway,

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yeah.

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I, I have that in my notes to say.

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I mean, Vanessa Kirby

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is in my favorite movie,

which is Hobbs and Shaw.

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A absolute banger classic of a movie.

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Which I love.

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And we will watch and review

and I, I'll say it again,

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my favorite movie subs

to, And Nessa Kirby is in it.

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Shout out to Hobbs and Shaw and Vanessa

Kirby.

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Yeah.

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But but but this one is just good.

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It's not.

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It's not unique to me.

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It's just it's a it's an excellent movie.

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So we're definitely.

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I can't believe

I haven't brought it up yet.

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I don't know why I didn't bring it.

I haven't pitched it.

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We've got to watch it.

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Have you not seen it, Robbie?

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Oh, wait.

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You are in for a ride.

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Well,

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ready yourself.

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Perfect.

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It's a it's a great movie.

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No, it's a what?

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It's a it's a it's a what?

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It's a it's a.

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I did like when she said.

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I don't think talking

is the most important part.

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I thought that's what you're going to say.

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Sundays at seven on the dot.

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No matter. What was.

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And that's how they knew

they were preggers.

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Right?

384

:

Johnny,

uncle Johnny says that Uncle Johnny.

385

:

Silver Surfer and uncle.

386

:

And so, yeah, Silver Surfer was like.

387

:

Because Silver Surfer says that

388

:

because she did that for her village

and that's why she's still alive.

389

:

But now she's like going around murdering.

390

:

Yeah. This is strong quote.

391

:

That's kind of the thesis of the movie.

392

:

I'm not sacrificing my son

for this planet, but I won't sacrifice

393

:

this planet for my son.

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About the Podcast

the arc.fm
Storytellers talking about stories!
Join us, three very different types of storytellers with three very different types of personalities, as we bring each other stories of all kinds to break apart and celebrate. In every episode, we're having the best time exploring what makes a story work, why it moves us, and why we can't stop talking about it. It's not analysis. It's not review. And it's something more than just a conversation about one of the things that makes life worth living... stories.