Marty Supreme - Elegant Chaos
We engage in an intricate examination of "Marty Supreme," a film that, despite its chaotic narrative structure, manages to convey a profound commentary on ambition and the American Dream. Central to our analysis is the revelation that the protagonist's relentless pursuit of success ultimately precipitates his moral and existential unraveling. We delve into the metaphors woven throughout the film, acknowledging their shortcomings even as we celebrate the spirit and audacity of the storytelling. As we traverse this cinematic landscape, we uncover the complexities of character motivations and the implications of their actions, while also drawing parallels to other works, notably "Uncut Gems." Should you wish for us to delve into the depths of another film, particularly "Uncut Gems," we invite you to leave a comment and share your thoughts. The discussion centers on the movie 'Marty Supreme', a film characterized by its chaotic narrative and the intense journey of its protagonist, a table tennis player. The speakers delve into the film's portrayal of ambition, the relentless pursuit of dreams, and the personal sacrifices that come with such aspirations. The film's screenplay is praised for its efficiency, as every element introduced plays a significant role in the broader narrative arc. A notable point of contention arises regarding the film's ending, with differing opinions on the protagonist's character development and the implications of his journey. The speakers grapple with the moral complexities presented in the film, particularly the juxtaposition of the American Dream and the darker realities of ambition, leading to a nuanced conversation about character motivations and the film's broader societal commentary.
Transcript
What is this movie? The chaos will not stop
Speaker B:Since this is based on a real life person. In real life, the climactic match was held in India, and in the script, they changed it to Japan. For Jacqueline, I have a purpose.
Speaker A:Okay, let me ask you something. Do you make money at this little table tennis thing?
Speaker C:Not yet.
Speaker A:Do you have a job?
Speaker B:No. Backhand. Backhand forehead.
Speaker A:How do you live?
Speaker B:Well, I live with the confidence. If I believe in myself, the money will follow.
Speaker A:And what do you plan to do if this whole dream of yours doesn't work out?
Speaker B:That doesn't even enter my consciousness.
Speaker A:Maybe it should.
Speaker B:So, yeah, Jacqueline, what's your first bullet point or what's the first thing that you want to say about this story?
Speaker A:Marty supreme was so chaotic and exhausting. At the halfway point, I had to stop it and, like, go to bed, give myself, like a 12 hour palate cleanser before I watched the rest of it.
The next day, about 20 minutes into Marty Supreme, I yelled into the living room, this is the most safty safdie to have ever saftied.
Speaker B:Did you see Uncut's gems? Because I don't think anyone who has seen this film has seen uncut gems.
Speaker A:Except for Marvel guy.
Speaker C:That's great.
Speaker A:Not a film guy. Has no context for stuff. He goes unprompted. You know what this movie reminds me of? Uncut gems. I said, exactly.
Because I've tried so many safdie movies, and I usually. I honestly like, my nervous system can't take them.
Speaker B:What others have you tried and how far did you get into them?
Speaker A:I never get far. So I've tried uncut gems and I believe that there's a world where I like it, but I got, I feel like seven minutes at most.
And then there was that one with, like, Emma Stone. There was, like, that show, like, you and I. Cole bought like, tickets to see it in a theater like, every week for like a month or something.
They're like, gentrifying a neighborhood. It's like Emma Stone, the curse. Was the show like that show? I was like, I'll never watch another safdie anything ever again.
I wanted to like it, but it made me so uncomfortable. I just was like, I just couldn't do it.
Speaker B:I'll just say you have a lot of gall announcing this as the most safdie of all safdies.
Speaker A:I know, I know. I knew I'd get called out for it too. I shouldn't even have made it a bullet point. You can just get it.
Speaker B:I will just let you Know that if you had finished Uncut Gems. And actually, Robbie, tell me if you agree or not agree, that if you had finished Uncut Gems, you would not have made the statement that you made.
Speaker C:No, no, no. That's right. No, I agree with that. I agree with that.
Speaker B:Yeah. This was like Steven Spielberg made uncut Gems. Nice, slow and luxurious.
Speaker A:Well, then just cut it out.
Speaker B:Sumptuous even.
Speaker A:Cole, could you say uncut gems one more time?
Speaker B:Uncut Gems.
Speaker A:Uncut Gems. Great. I was Josh Safdie's muse when he wrote Uncut Jam.
Speaker B:Right. It's not really what Julia Fox said. It's kind of how she said it. Uncut Jam.
Speaker C:Uncut cam.
Speaker A:Uncut Jam.
Speaker B:In Julia's defense, she said that she was simply stoned when she made the mispronunciation on Call Her Daddy. The viral clip stemmed from Julia being asked about her then relationship.
Speaker C:Yeah. And I really. I really liked Uncut Gems. I loved what it. I loved what it did. Like, I loved how it led up to this point.
Like, you spend the entire movie wanting Adam Sandler's character, whose name I forget. You end up wanting him to just get one break so that, like, he can relax a little bit and he finally gets it and boy, does it.
Oh, I'm not gonna say because I don't want to. But it just. It does not end the way that I thought it was. And I was shocked. And I was.
Speaker A:I gotta watch it.
Speaker C:I was. I loved it. I really loved it. Yeah.
Speaker A:I feel like this movie was like the most. Chekhov's gun of Chekhov's guns from, you know, each character being introduced and coming back time after time.
So we meet Gwyneth Paltrow's character, and then she comes back at the end and comes back at the end again, despite the meeting, you know, in London. The. The way that the Japanese opponent held the paddle, I believe was called like a pen or so it related to pens.
And then, you know, that relates back to Mr. Wonderful, I think is his name on Shark Tank. But Kevin o' Leary's character, who then is like an ink magnate and owns pens. And so that came back.
The dog to me really stuck out because when the dog first shows up. So you know, Chekhov's dog, when that dog first shows up, it's smelly and it's dirty in a hotel. And I. I really was like, what is. Like, what is this?
Like, why is this in here? Why. Why is this showing up? And then the dog is in the bathtub that through the ceiling than the Dog. The dog, the dog.
Like, we see that that dog drives a major part of the story arc in a huge way. There are literal guns throughout that you see and maybe get fired, but they will get fired again. You return to locations, you return to people.
There's a lot of, like, circling back a very efficiently written screenplay because everything that is introduced did have a place, did have a meaning, despite how chaotic it was and the fact that it's two and a half hours long. It did feel like everything that you see on screen get shot. Right. Like, every gun that shows up has a payoff or has a point or has a. Has a callback.
Speaker C:It's this trope of, like, the American Dream where you. Where you pursue something like a goal, and then at all costs, and you do it.
But what this guy ends up doing is pursuing this and destroying everything in his wake. And that is like. I did have a really good experience watching it. I thought it was gonna be far more propulsive than it was.
I thought it was gonna be far, like. Because with uncut gems, like, everything that Adam Sandler's character does pushes the movie forward. And it's not the same in this case. Like, it is.
Speaker A:It's sort of the reverse. It's almost like everything pushes him further back, which is interesting.
Speaker C:Yeah, well, but he also goes everywhere and he does sort of achieve this, like, goal of his, except it's a little tragic.
Speaker A:Except.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah. Like, he does and he doesn't. And then. But he really also kind of destroys his life and doesn't destroy his life in the making.
And I thought that was like. I thought that was like an interesting. An alternate take on the American experience at this time. And the Jewishness is not something. It's something.
Being Jewish myself is something I normally push away from because I'm like, no, being Jewish doesn't excuse you from being, like, a repulsive human being. But at the same time, this is just after World War II. It's just after the Holocaust. The guy himself is encountering all kinds of anti Semitism.
Like, all kinds of anti Semitism, and he just doesn't care. He's able to manipulate that and use it to achieve his goals.
Speaker B:I haven't seen any others. So, one.
Speaker A:Any nerves going into the semis?
Speaker B:Nerves against Klutzky? No. Are you kidding me?
Speaker C:Well, he's won the tournament for the last three years.
Speaker B:Look, I'm going to do to Kletzki what Auschwitz couldn't, okay? I'm going to finish the job.
Speaker C:Jesus Christ.
Speaker A:You're A little strong, mate.
Speaker B:It's all right.
Speaker C:I'm.
Speaker B:I'm Jewish. I could say that. In fact, if you think about it, I'm like, Hitler's worst nightmare. Yeah, write that down. That was good.
Speaker A:I have to be honest. I didn't even clock, like. I clocked the Auschwitz tattoos. I didn't clock that.
I was so overwhelmed by the film itself that I actually just, like, let myself fully ignore that. So shame on me, because I honestly, I like, couldn't.
Speaker B:You didn't even clock him being Jewish?
Speaker A:No, not him. I mean, I did. Like. Like, the whole thing feels very Jewish, but I didn't. I just didn't. I was blinded to it. I was. I'm embarrassingly blinded to it.
Speaker C:I was, too. And I had to, like, after the movie, I had to recontextualize it because I was, like. I was pushing that away because I was having such a.
It is a really uncomfortable movie to watch. Marty supreme himself, who you're rooting for is not someone you really. It takes some acceptance of how terrible a character he is.
And it takes some acceptance within myself to realize I'm rooting for this awful, awful person. You know, it's the same with, like, the Godfather or Flowers of the Killer Moon.
Speaker A:The thing that's disappointed me about Marty supreme is.
And it reminded me of, like, Cole when you and I walked out of Killers of a Flower Moon because it's just like, I don't want to see bad people doing bad things, and I don't need them to be, like, CIS het white guys being narcissists. Like, I don't find that complex. I don't find it compelling. I don't find it interesting. It's just like, this is just a jerk doing jerk things.
And, like, I'm just. I'm tired of that.
And I'm tired of sort of acting like these very boring people are somehow, like, complex or intriguing or, like, worthy of our money and time and efforts.
Speaker C:And it's a lot to grapple with as, like, an audience member. I think the guy comes from nowhere, and he just wants the chance to compete. And you want that for him. But you're also watching the movie.
I'm watching the movie. I'm watching Marty supreme, and I'm like, this has to end at the big match. And I forget where that's being held. Is it. It's Japan, right?
Speaker A:It's Japan. Yeah.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:There's a quick fact about this you need to know is that since this is based on a real life person in Real life. The climactic match was held in India, and in the script, they changed it to Japan for Jacqueline.
Speaker A:I was gonna say, this should be my favorite film.
Speaker C:Jacqueline, Now I just feel like you're being ungrateful. Really. I mean, what are you.
Speaker A:The safdies have done so much for me.
Speaker C:Yeah. So. So it. It. It takes the form of a very. Like. Of a very familiar movie, and then all of a sudden, it just.
Speaker A:That's it.
Speaker C:Like, it. It. It doesn't give you that thing. It doesn't give you that thing you're expecting. I mean, it's. It's. It's a very unsettling movie.
Speaker B:I'm Giovanni Lago from the Next Best Picture podcast, and today I am joined by the writer, editor, producer, Marty Supreme, Ronald Rossing.
Speaker C:Ronald, thank you so much for joining me today.
Speaker D:My pleasure.
The great benefit to being a writer and an editor on the same movie is that when you get into the edit, you don't have to have any respect for the writer. Once we get to the edit, it's almost like we're looking. I'm just sitting over a treasure trove of found footage. Writing, in a way, is the.
Is the part of the process that I'm most suspicious of, because we're trying to capture all the complexity and emotionality of human behavior without pasteurizing it. Right. Because you're making something that's moving in your mind into something static. So you're just nervous all the time.
You're nervous all the time that the second you write it down, you're sort of killing the idea.
Speaker B:I think you'd feel about Uncut Gems. How I feel about Marty Supreme.
Speaker A:How do you feel about Marty? I keep waiting for you to jump in here with your thoughts. Cool.
Speaker C:Yeah. What do you think, Cole?
Speaker B:Marty supreme is great storytelling because it makes me care about something I don't care about. In fact, I literally don't like the dude, and I'm rooting for him. So, yes, I did root for him.
The big thing that stood out to me about its storytelling and just made me think about with storytelling is what story do you choose to tell? Who and what do you point the camera at? Who do you listen to? How long do you listen to them?
The film has all these unbelievably written lines, like, just, I'm Hitler's worst nightmare by itself is worth building an entire script around. But that's just the cute stuff. Like, the thing that stuck out were the basic building block choices that were made before they even sat down.
At a keyboard. I really did not need anybody to point a camera at this guy at all. But once you did well, you did it very, very, very, very, very, very well.
Speaker C:But why, Cole, can you talk a little bit more about what it chose to point the camera at?
Speaker B:When I first said, what do you choose to point the camera at? That was more of a comment of what subject matter are you trying to talk about? Did you choose the ping pong guy to tell a story about?
Or did you choose a wrestler, a professional wrestler to tell a story about? Did you choose to tell the story about the woman who fakes their abuse?
Or did you choose to tell the story about the guy trying to get money to get on a plane? To get on a plane. Then within that, to be more literal about it, they built these extremely elaborate sets.
Like, clearly, like, they had all the money they needed. And yet we don't see most of the sets.
It's still shot like a:So it's still shot as if it's like, nope, just an indie film, but in a period piece.
Speaker A:Yeah, well, yeah, a lot of the shots were pretty claustrophobic, but you're right, like, unbelievable sets, unbelievable settings, beautiful lighting, but, yeah, like, really claustrophobic. And I wonder if that's in part, you know, ping pong. Like, ping pong's a grand sport, but it's not tennis. It's not. It's. It's tiny, right?
Like, it's a tiny ball, It's a tiny table. It's a tiny.
Speaker C:In the climactic table tennis match. It wasn't. It was still pretty close. Yeah. Tight. Yeah, I like that.
Speaker B:This story really enforced my mind because of how good the filmmaking was that there are or there should be no nameless people on screen. Meaning, like, you've done this amazing work of backstory, forward thinking, story, character research.
You can't have bartender number two, or Thanksgiving girlfriend or secret boyfriend. Like, people deserve an effing name.
And I realize that's something that perhaps is going to get thrown out the window every time you're making something, but does it really have to be? Is it really that big of a deal?
Speaker C:As a side note, there's a really great story about. About Groucho Marx retiring on his last movie. He was like, I mean, you watch those movies and those guys just commit, right?
Like, they're just like, like the verbal dexterity and the physical dexterity and they're all like, there, there, there, there, there.
And then on his last movie, it's like, I don't know, 11 or 12 at night, he's hanging upside down from a crane and he thinks to himself, what the hell am I doing? He's like. And it was at that moment I think knew I had to retire.
Like, you know when you can't do that small thing anymore, it's like, all right, I gotta do something else.
Speaker B:Great quick opinion about Timothee Chalamet's performance. He did actually act the entire time and he made us know it, which was cool that it was sustained.
Speaker A:I appreciated that. He always, you know, it's gambling at its finest. Like, he always thinks if he can just get to this thing, it will fix all the back stuff.
And it just keeps getting worse and worse. It is. It's just like the worst gambling problem in history, you know.
Speaker B:Again, you have not seen Uncut Gems.
Speaker C:I will say I didn't think I.
Speaker A:Needed to watch it before we recorded. I meant I, like, I almost woke up at like 2am just to watch it because I was like, I'm going to get schooled on the spot.
I think that's actually why I didn't really like it. I don't feel like there's a hero's journey and if I don't see the hero grow and he feels flat, it doesn't. I don't. I didn't think he grew.
I didn't think he changed. I thought he just kept going through circumstances unrelenting for this like end goal that he probably wasn't going to achieve. So I didn't.
That's why it doesn't make it bad. It's just like I don't generally enjoy a hero that doesn't change does. And I didn't think he ever changed. Even at his lowest, I didn't.
Speaker B:So does that mean that if we were discussing the ending, his final moment of holding the child, crying didn't show change for you? Or I can say, I want to ask you, like, what? What do you think he did five minutes after the moment he's crying, holding.
Speaker A:The baby, Something fucking self centered and dumb like left to go play ping pong, hustle money, sleep with Gwyneth Paltrow? I mean, like, I don't. Yeah, I gu.
I didn't because I've seen so many men who think they've been changed by babies just to go be terrible freaking dad, you know? Like, I don't think anything changed. It was an ending. I get why they ended it there, but I wasn't like, ooh, change, growth, hope.
Speaker C:Yeah, it's like the end of Uncut Gems, which I'm not gonna spoil here for people who haven't seen it.
Speaker A:Jacqueline Nicole.
Speaker C:But. But it does not. Does not shed light on what. On anything that came before it.
Speaker A:You say something interesting, though, which is like, that. It does just keep moving forward. Like, that was like, he. He is not. He's not the master of his own universe.
Like, it does not feel like he is making his own choices and driving his own life or story. It's like he's being propelled through the universe and it just keeps moving forward.
And, like, he keeps trying to get to places, but nothing goes as planned. And, like, he has no control. It's just now there' a baby involved. Like, we don't even know if she forgives him.
We don't know what happens right to her. Like, she. I mean, she got beat up and was like, in, you know, intensive care and then had the baby four weeks early. So it's.
It isn't like a beautiful story where it's like, he shows up for the birth and they agree to, like, care for each other forever. It's like, I don't. We don't even know if she's gonna live, per se. Like, she looked okay in the bed, but we don't. We don't.
There's no hope at the end of this unless you make it up in your own head.
Speaker B:You know, I think millions of people are making up the hope in their head very distinctly. Also. I would love to see a story written about that baby and that baby's life with that guy,.
Speaker A:Especially, because he'd be. He'd start to become just like this aged, sad dude who had, like, glory when he was like, 23, you know, and, like. But living on that forever.
He'd be like the slick sort of like, leisure suit dad.
Speaker B:And the glory is infinitely less and less because ping pong was at its very height in this moment and wasn't even really tall and just keeps getting shorter.
Speaker A:Yeah. I would watch spin offs from this movie for sure. Like, I definitely watch. I'd.
I'd love to follow Endo around, like, see what, like, how'd he get so good? What's his life? What is it like being the best and the worst in Japan? I would. I'd Follow Rachel around forever. I'd follow that baby around.
Speaker C:Was the pool player the. Was that Tyler, the creator?
Speaker A:Mm.
Speaker C:Okay. Yeah. I liked his character quite a bit too.
Speaker A:Yeah, I'd follow that for sure. Yeah.
Speaker C:This movie really. This could be pretential or. But it seems like a movie that's very much of our time.
It really does deal with, like, the artifice of a life and artifice of a dream. Because there is part of me that really does root for him. Not because of who he is, but because of what he's trying to pursue.
And I automatically just want him to get it because he's pursuing it and because there's this belief, deep seated belief in me that once you get it, he. He gets it, he'll be fine.
You know, he can stop the pursuit, but what's really going on is that this pursuit is so hardwired into the way that he is that it's not going to stop. You know, he's just going to keep going. And it makes me think, like, I feel bad for how exhausting that has to be.
Speaker A:It was exhausting just for the two and a half hours of my life. I'm glad. I can't imagine living it. I will.
I will say this is a random non sequitur, but the opening segment reminded me a lot of, like, the credits reminded me a lot of look who's Talking. So I.
Speaker C:Yes. Yeah.
Speaker A:Kind of had trouble taking it too seriously because all I could think of was, like, talking babies voiced by John Travolta and Christie Alley.
Speaker B:I had trouble taking it seriously because it was such a call. Back to Uncut Gems,.
Speaker A:Which is a callback to look who's Talking.
Speaker B:What if this were about the woman who paints a black eye on her face?
Speaker A:I'm seated.
Speaker B:David Mamet is in the cast in this. How does that make you feel to know that David Mamet was cast in this?
Speaker A:Like, it was made just for me. It feels like you made this. If that's true, like, between the. Like, we're gonna change it to Japan.
We're gonna put Mammoth in the cast, and it's going to really make Jacqueline crazy. And there's going to be a dog for some reason in the center of this ping pong film. Go who? Unlimited budget.
Speaker C:Who was David Mamet in this movie?
Speaker A:Oh, wow. It's the third pull up on it goes David Mamet movies. David Mamet plays David Mamet. Marty Supr. Third. Third. Search on Google.
Speaker B:Oh, which person was he?
Speaker A:Glenn Nordman, a stage director working with Gwyneth Paltrow's character, K. Stone.
Speaker C:There was also a Dustin Hoffman reference in that scene.
Speaker A:Ooh.
Speaker C:When Dustin Hoffman and Laurence Olivier were working on Marathon Man, Dustin Hoffman stayed up all night for the dentist scene. I don't know if either of you have seen the movie, but Laurence Olivier was said to have said to him, why don't you just act?
Speaker A:That's funny.
Speaker C:And that was. There was a reference to that in this. In this movie, in Marty Supreme.
Speaker B:Because the real. The real story is only gonna get better as the numbers go up, I assume.
Speaker A:Probably like a friend of mine. Whatever. I'm one Kevin Bacon away from somebody who liked the real. And so she felt like my friend was new celebrities because she knew us.
But the story gets better. Anyway, favorite lines.
Speaker C: evin O'. Leary. I was born in:I've met many Marty Mausers over the century. Some of them crossed me. Some of them weren't straight. They weren't honest. And those are the ones that are still here.
You go out, you win that game, you're going to be here forever, too. And you'll never be happy. You will never be happy. I just adored that and that.
Speaker A:I mean, I guess that's the thesis of the movie and what the ending is about.
Speaker C:Yeah, I just love that. It's like the big businessman. The big. Like, I was here before you, I'm gonna be here after you. I have the money.
No matter what you do, you are never going to be happy. I've seen so many people like you who are never, ever happy.
And he's one of the more reprehensible characters in the movie, and he speaks the truth of it, which really goes so, so far. And then there's the.
Speaker B:That character seemed like the cartoonishly evil version of when from the Torah movie. The business guy behind it would finally say his business stuff. Yeah, I'm gonna.
Speaker A:Literally. Literally. Like, you wrote the movie. Literally. What's funny is I didn't think he was such a villain.
He's not a good dude, but, like, no one's good in this film. Like, I wasn't like, I was like, oh, there's Marty Supreme Good Guy.
Like, it was just sort of like, oh, look, it's a bad guy doing bad guy things with a bunch of bad guys.
Speaker B:And did you both recognize this person? And could you please tell us who he is? For a person who did not recognize.
Speaker A:Him, who would not have recognized him? You, Cole?
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:Yeah. Oh, my God. Harvard over here.
Speaker C:Who is this?
Speaker A:Kevin o'. Leary. Who plays Milton. What is it? Milton Rockwell.
Speaker C:Milton.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker A:That's so on the nose. Milton Rockwell is played by Kevin O', Leary, which is. Who is Mr. Wonderful from Shark Tank. So he was.
He was a staple on years of Shark Tank, and I definitely recognized him to the point where I couldn't really unsee him as Shark Tank guy. He did a great job, though. I. It didn't feel like he was stunt cast or like they. You know, he. He fit in as an actor for sure.
But I. I certainly saw him as Shark Tank guy.
Speaker C:Yeah. Yeah. I had a hard time seeing him as anything else, too.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:But because his Persona on Shark Tank was so similar. It was like.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker A:Yeah, sure.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker D:Yes.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker D:This was the first time that Josh and I were sitting down to write with the feeling that there were maybe a set of expectations or eyes on us only because Gems was the first time that a work that we made was commercially successful.
Speaker C:Sure.
Speaker D:So, you know, you have to sort of clear your mind. You know, out of all the things to sort of respect in an artist, me personally, range is very low on the list. You know, I look.
I look for range in the full gamut of possible, you know, human beings, but for each individual human being. Right.
I mean, we all have a pretty fixed set of preoccupations that carry us through the day, and it's silly to try to artificially, you know, reverse.
Speaker C:That one that I laughed at in the movie theater was. He was talking to Wally, his friend Wally, who's Tyler, the creator. And Wally says, why don't you put your money where your mouth is?
And Marty says, how about it? How about I put my penis where your mouth is?
Speaker A:I laugh, too, though.
Speaker C:That was great.
Speaker A:Love to.
Speaker C:Yeah. Those are the three that. That kind of stuck out. Like, it was a good script. It was really good script. Yeah.
Speaker A:Very well written.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah. I didn't. I never had a moment where I was like, exposition.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:I also thought the acting was phenomenal. Like, I actually. I almost don't even want to do my. My reading because I just. I'll never match her. Her line read, you know? Like, I. I kind of.
I often think it's fun to do line reads, but. But my favorite was they're trying to, like, they've called the man, and they're like, hey, we have your dog give us $2,000.
And he's like, I got the Dog for free. And she goes, what are you gonna do? Refuse the surgery because you got your mom for free? Dumb and funny to me. So dumb and funny. But yeah.
So she goes, that's kind of the wrong way to look at it because let's say I'm not calling about a dog. Let's say that I'm calling about your mother and I'm a doctor and I've got to perform emergency surgery on her or she's going to die.
What are you going to do? Refuse the surgery because you got your mom for free? No, that's crazy. You're going to do the surgery because you love your mother.
And then the guy goes, that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. And she goes, well, then I guess you don't know anything about love.
Like, of all of the arguments, like, I thought she was going to be like, it's not about the dog for free. It's about the love you have for the dog. But no, she goes, what are you going to do? Refuse the surgery. Surgery because you got your mom for free.
That's great writing. Like, there's no world where I saw that, that going that way. There's no world where I predicted that. I, I watched that like three times.
I thought that was so funny. What are you gonna do? Refuse the surgery because you got your mom for free? Terrible, terrible argument.
Speaker B:How do you think the character was feeling about herself and her argument while she was saying it?
Speaker A:Oh, man. So good. And that's what I love. The actress is so good. She, she's just brilliant. She's so compelling, so beautiful on screen. Such a phenomenal actor.
And you can just tell she's just like, I am killing this moment right now. Absolutely nailing this argument. Well, refuse the surgery because you got your mom for free.
Speaker C:Do you have any call. Do you have any favorite, favorite lines?
Speaker B:Yes, and they were almost all in the context of. I did not forget this was a Jewish story at all.
Speaker A:Because you're both Jewish, right? My friends.
Speaker B:And both very non practicing would.
Speaker A:Yeah. Yes. I should have known. But I, I forget.
Speaker B:Oh, the thing about the. The two ways I was watching it, one was like, just clap, clap, clap, clap. Yay. It's a Jewish movie. And there's only the Jewish perspective.
We're all just like living in it so they can do whatever they want within this playground. And the lengths at which. The lengths to which he and the person writing it took that permission.
Also subtly noting, like, Jewish at that time still meant immigrant very strongly.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:But with all that said. I've already said this one. I can't believe no one else had said this seven times. But I'm like, Hitler's worst nightmare.
Speaker A:What did he follow up with? Do you remember? Because I thought that the second part was the punchline. And I was like. Or maybe it was before it. I don't know.
The context around it really, really led to that punchline hitting.
Speaker C:He was talking to the British journalists about his opponent, who was Hungarian. And then he said, after that, I'm gonna do to Klutzky what Auschwitz couldn't. Yeah, that.
Speaker A:That got a big reaction for me.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, it was. I was.
Speaker A:And then that other line. I'm Hitler's worst nightmare.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Came after that. Right. Because. Yeah. To me it felt like a real one, two punch like that. Each hit harder because of the line before and after it.
Speaker C:And he also said, I can say that because I'm Jewish.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker C:Is right. Is. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker A:To your point, Cole.
Speaker B:And in this exchange, one of my other favorite lines came up of. Write that down. That was good.
Speaker A:I always love one of those.
Speaker B:And a not important one. I can't remember any of the context of this one, but somebody said none of this ping pong mishegoss.
Speaker A:That got me too. Actually, that one really got me.
Speaker C:I'm trying to think that might have been his uncle or the owner of the shoe shop.
Speaker B:Yes. The production designer made sure that in the shoe store, every box had shoes and tissue paper in the shoes in case it got pulled out and used.
Speaker A:Damn, I love that.
Speaker C:Nice.
Speaker B:I just said, go to that box. We prepared this box for you. Nope.
Speaker A:I would like to believe that. I just have lived in New York long enough that, like, it just felt like a familiar world.
So I wasn't so swept away by the Jewishness of it all, because it did. It just sort of felt. It felt Jewish but familiar.
Speaker C:One thing that sticks out as a Jewish person is it both. It comments on it and also leans into those stereotypes. How the world treats Judaism now, even. But then it also.
That character displayed some of the most, like, terrible stereotypes a bit. You know, being like, ambitious and money hungry and will do anything for a dollar. And like, you can't watch the.
The movie without removing that part. And I also imagine that as an audience member, some of what you think about Jewish people in general kind of rubs off on your experience of it.
And I say that because it definitely, like, I have very specific and visceral responses to being Jewish and seeing other Jewish people behave. And I'M like, oh, my God, please just stop. You know, sometimes. And then sometimes I'm like, I can make fun of them, but you can't.
Like, it's very much. It's very much part of the experience with. Of that movie. It's a huge part of. Like, that was the Lower east side, right? Like, that was.
Speaker A:It had to have been. Right?
Speaker C:Yeah. Like around the tenements or.
Speaker B:That was the one thing about it that was romanticized was that point of view of New York at this time.
Speaker A:I was curious where it was filmed because it didn't feel like actual blocks. I lived in the Lower east side for a while, and I. It didn't feel. All of it felt a little too polished to be real places.
Speaker C:Oh, it was. It was Lower east side. Orchard street and then.
Speaker A:That's my street.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Upper west side. And also Hudson Valley with additional scenes in New Jersey, Westchester county, and the final sequence in Japan.
Speaker A:Just for me,.
Speaker B:That was the one that I thought felt like a sound. Japan felt like a soundstage to me. And when you said they actually went to Japan, I can't believe it. For the.
Went to Japan for, like, the most sound, stagey thing you could.
Speaker A:Yeah. I feel like it was just like in a warehouse with a table tennis.
Speaker C:I'm very excited that this movie was that Marty supreme was nominated for Best Original Screenplay. I think this is, like. This is the type of screenplay that that. That category was, like, made for. It's exciting, it's unusual. It's a.
It's a smart exploration of that story. And even though it didn't always work for me, I just. I loved all the work that went into it, and I love the execution of it.
Speaker A:I agree. Excellent, excellent screenplay. So well written. Super efficient.
It sort of follows all the rules of writing like textbook, but does it in such an unpredictable, chaotic way that it never feels 101. Good writing, you know, it was just. Just superbly done.
Speaker B:In fact, they brought up the word original. I was upset the entire time watching it in the back of my head because I was like, this feels so much like an adapted work.
I'm like, what's the difference between drawing off a bunch of articles about somebody's life versus a biopic? Biopic.
Speaker C:Yeah, you're right. You're right. It does feel like. It does feel like a biopic. No, a biopic. It feels like a biopic.
Speaker A:Yeah, it does. It does.
Speaker C:Yeah. But still, I love it. I love it. Yeah.
Speaker A:And thinking about this movie from the specific screenplay perspective, whether or not I enjoyed the experience of watching the film. It's a great screenplay.
Speaker C:The end was the only time I was like, what the hell? What did you want me to get from that? Like, and, you know, not anger, but, like, I felt like I was supposed to feel for him. And. And.
And like I said before, I was just like, I don't know. I don't know where he is. I don't know what he's doing. I don't know what the movie's asking of me. I don't.
But I'm glad, you know, I'm glad the popcorn's done, and I'm glad I get to go home, you know? Yeah.
Speaker B:So, Jacqueline, when were you out or in? When were you in or out?
Speaker A:I was glad I watched the whole film. I'm glad we do this. I liked Rachel's character so much that she pulled me in quite a bit, but I think I was out. The dog, bathtub, chaos.
That was when I was out. I was like, what? Why? What is this movie? Like, it just. It will not stop. Like, the chaos will not stop.
It felt like if you asked a little kid for four words and then, like, wrote a scene around it, it was like, dog blood. Bathtub Ping pong. Yeah, ping pong. Naked Timothy Chalamet Hotel. What is happening?
